Ktm motorcycles for sale in New Jersey

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2017 KTM 65 SX

2017 KTM 65 SX

$2,999

Haddon Heights, New Jersey

Negotiable

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 65 SX

Category Motocross Bikes

Engine 65

Posted Over 1 Month

excellent condition. 51.6 hours total. 15 hours on new upper end and tires. Mileage is in hours!

2015 KTM RC 390

2015 KTM RC 390

Request Price

Mahwah, New Jersey

Year 2015

Make KTM

Model RC 390

Category -

Engine 373.2 cc cc

Posted Over 1 Month

A sports bike in its purest form. Reduced to the essentials. Agile, fast, suitable for A2 driving licence and extremely sporty. Whether you are on country roads or the racetrack, the Moto3 genes are perceptible in every maneuver and convey pure race feeling. The handling – simply spectacular. The performance – incredible. The power – awesome.

2016 KTM 1190 Adventure

2016 KTM 1190 Adventure

$13,699

East Hanover, New Jersey

Year 2016

Make KTM

Model 1190 Adventure

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2016 KTM 1190 Adventure, Price includes all current rebates. Doc, freight, prep, motor vehicle and NJ sales tax are extra. **BOTH COLORS AVAILABLE** 2016 KTM 1190 Adventure Sporty Domination of Travel Enduros on Street KTM already set standards in the travel segment with the new 1190 Adventure in its first model year. Already in 2014, the 1190 Adventure, together with its "R" sister model, has been turned into what is currently the world's safest motorcycle - yet still with undiluted riding pleasure. It was the first motorcycle, offering Bosch's new MSC (Motorcycle Stability Control). MSC enhances the existing package consisting of lean-sensitive traction control and ABS featuring a combined braking function with a world first: the first ever lean-sensitive cornering ABS. As ever, it sets standards in the travel segment: 150 hp with a weight of only 230 kg fully tanked combine to produce a power-to-weight ratio previously unheard of in this class and therefore delivering unrivalled ride dynamics. At the same time, the powerful, economical and cultivated engine enables either particularly relaxed and comfortable riding or, if required, super-sporty propulsion - with every conceivable level in between. The chassis combines lightness with outstanding geometry and fantastic suspension, allow undreamed of riding pleasure in all conditions and whatever speed you desire, from very relaxed to very, very fast. Features may include: CockpitState-of-the-art instrument cluster from automotive supplier VDO: central permanent LCD for displaying all riding conditions (plus speedo and rev counter with adjustable gearshift light), another LCD on the left for displaying the adjustable features:» Favourites page» MSC ride modes» Riding conditions page for additional info, e.g. outside/oil temperature, on-board voltage, various trips, average speed, average and current fuel consumption, range, distance to next serviceMode SwitchDifferent modes for the various assistance systems can be selected using a mode switch on the left side of the handlebar. It's very simple and intuitive: "up" and "down" through the menu selection, select the desired menu item with the left button, confirm it with the right, job done!ChassisWith its ultra-lightweight yet extremely stable tubular space frame, the high strength, die-cast, open-lattice swingarm and high quality suspension components from WP Suspension, the KTM 1190 Adventure meets all requirements for stability and controllability. Spoked wheels - tubeless, 19-inch up front; 17-inch at the rear - fat tires and employment of appropriate suspension travel optimise its talents on the asphalt. Unrivalled braking from world market leader Brembo and assistance systems (MSC with MTC and lean-sensitive C-ABS), developed in close collaboration with Bosch, round off the package and help

2017 KTM 250 XC

2017 KTM 250 XC

$8,899

Belleville, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 250 XC

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2017 KTM 250 XC, 2017 KTM 250 XC UNRIVALLED 2-STROKE PERFORMANCE With enough power to excel on all sorts of tracks and terrain, combined with an extremely lightweight chassis, the 250 XC has one of the best power-to-weight ratios in it's class. The unrivalled performance of the lightweight 2-stroke engine makes it a true contender against the more complex 4-strokes. Features may include: CYLINDERThe cylinder of the 250 XC is fitted with a sophisticated TVC (Twin Valve Control) power valve, providing adjustable power characteristics. The power character can be changed within a few seconds thanks to two supplied springs for different tracks and rider preference.CLUTCHThe KTM DDS (Damped Diaphragm Steel) clutch is fitted with a diaphragm spring, which allows implementation of an internal rubber damping system. Together with a lightweight steel basket and the Brembo hydraulic system the DDS clutch offers maximum reliability, excellent modulation and light lever pull.CARBURETORThe 250 XC is fitted with a proven Mikuni TMX 38 carburetor producing the perfect air-fuel mixture. For extreme temperature or altitude the setting can be tuned with supplied jets and needles according to a setting list in the manual.ENGINEThe powerful KTM 250 XC engine unites an unbeatable power-to-weight ratio with outstanding performance and extremely easy handling.FRAMEThe modern frame design of the 250 XC, comprised of lightweight, high strength, chrome-molybdenum steel section tubes, combines maximum longitudinal stiffness with optimum torsional stiffness.LINKAGE/SHOCKABSORBERThe linkage system of the 250 XC features a progressive curve with a high initial rate ensuring good stability. The high-end WP 5018 shock absorber guarantees outstanding response and damping characteristics. Compression and rebound damping can be adjusted to the track conditions and the rider's preferences.FORKThe XC model range features the 48mm WP AER 48 fork. The setting has been specifically developed for racing cross-country in the US. The forks can be easily adjusted for compression and rebound via the dials on the top of the fork tubes.TRIPLE CLAMPSTop quality, CNC-machined triple clamps have been something of a KTM trademark for years. Ensuring precise handling, they provide proper clamping force for correct flex characteristics, thus improving the action of the forks. For 2017 the upper triple clamp features a newly developed rubber damping system for the handlebar clamp in order to reduce the vibration levels felt through the handlebar. The clamps retain their forward and back adjustability for rider preference.GRAPHICSNew modern in-mold graphics highlight the Ready to Race character of the cutting-edge 2017 XC range of bikes.

2016 KTM 390 Duke

2016 KTM 390 Duke

$3,899

Belleville, New Jersey

Year 2016

Make KTM

Model 390 Duke

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2016 KTM 390 Duke, PLEASE SEE VIDEO TAB BELOW FOR A FULL WALK AROUND OF THIS BIKE. SALE PRICE PLUS freight & prep, tax and tagsThe 390 Duke breathes life into values that have made motorcycling so amazing for decades. It combines maximum riding pleasure with optimum user value and is superior everywhere where really nimble handling counts. Light as a feather, powerful and packed with state-of-the-art technology, it guarantees undreamed of dynamic fun, whether you're in the urban jungle or a forest of bends. 390 Duke nowhere you will find more motorcycle per euro.Dynamic Cornering FunBrakes: A state-of-the-art Bosch 9MB ABS makes the pleasure of the impressive Duke dynamics even safer and adds the finishing touch to its peerless chassis qualities. The ABS on the KTM 390 Duke monitors the effect of the potent brake system with radially-bolted, four-piston caliper and 300 mm disc diameter - fun with no regrets, developed in close collaboration with the specialists from Bosch and Brembo. And for the stunt riders among us: the ABS is naturally disengageableFrame: 32 kW (44 hp) power plus a dry weight of only 139 kg guarantee immense, agile riding fun with the new 390 Duke. The first-class chassis, with lightweight still trellis frame in the proven KTM design, turns it into a real surfer through the bends. Masses grouped close to the centre of gravity maximize maneuverability and precision and prepare the 390 Duke perfectly for the rush hour slalom.Telescopic fork: The KTM 390 Duke's high-quality upside-down fork from WP Suspension has the same 43 mm outer tube diameter as the RC8 R in other words: real racing equipment that guarantees highest levels of stability and precision.Swingarm: The 390 Duke's lightweight, high-quality, pin-jointed, die-cast swingarm is designed and produced according to the same principle as the 690 Duke. The light alloy swingarm with directly linked WP shock absorber excels with extreme torsional stiffness and outstanding tracking stability.Wheels and tires: Equally lightweight and delicate as they are stable, the 17 in cast light alloy wheels are fitted with grippy Metzeler tires - 110 mm wide at the front and an impressive 150 mm at the rear. The tires impress with tremendous grip in both wet and dry conditions, as well as providing supreme durability.Low Fuel ConsumptionInjection: The intricate engine design, state-of-the-art injection electronics and the close-ratio, six-speed transmission not only help the KTM 390 Duke to achieve impressive performance, but also extremely low fuel consumption. Thanks to the regulated catalytic converter, it produces only minimal emissions.Fuel tank: The shapely 11 l fuel tank of the 390 Duke not only provides the rider with perfect knee contact, but also with a greater range, even when ridden on the edge, thanks to the economic engine.One Size Fits AllErgonomics: T

2016 KTM 1290 Super Duke R

2016 KTM 1290 Super Duke R

Request Price

Belleville, New Jersey

Year 2016

Make KTM

Model 1290 Super Duke R

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2016 KTM 1290 Super Duke R, 2016 KTM 1290 Super Duke R UNLEASH THE BEAST In the form of the KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R, KTM has crowned its legendary Naked Bike model range with a machine that redefines the term 'Streetfighter'. One look at its impressive performance data and aggressive design is enough to see that the 1290 R is the most extreme Super Duke ever. Thanks to unbeatable performance in conjunction with the versatility provided by the adjustable riding modes and PowerParts setups. Pure riding pleasure is pre-programmed - from the racetrack to the city and everywhere in between. The new KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R perfectly embodies the KTM philosophy: endless power, highest precision, perfect ergonomics, finest ingredients, not a gram too much, simply "Ready to Race"! The KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R high-tech in an aggressive design with unprecedented functionality and razor-sharp sportiness reduced to the essentials. The new KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R transforms optimum performance with maximum safety into ultimate riding pleasure. Features may include: DASHBOARDThe KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R supplies its rider with all necessary and desirable information on a state-of-the-art, clearly arranged instrument cluster from VDO. Core data is displayed on a central instrument that consists of an analogue rev counter with integrated, adjustable gearshift light and an LCD display. This display is dominated by a digital speedometer and supplemented with a digital clock, a gear indicator, bar graphs for coolant temperature and fuel level plus the display for the selected ride mode. A second LCD display is positioned to the left of the central instrument, which serves the purpose of conveying important additional information and displaying numerous menu pages as a screen for the on-board computer. Everything is tidy, clean, clear, intuitive and simple to operate while riding as well.MODE SWITCHThe on-board computer's menu pages are selected and operated using the four control keys of the mode switch on the left handlebar grip. It's very simple and intuitive: "up" and "down" through the menu selection, select the desired menu item with the left button, confirm it with the right, job done! The Exit key on the left of the mode switch can be pressed at any time to return to the previous menu level. A user can learn menu navigation in no time at all.ERGONOMICSHave you ever thought about seat position? Stack and reach, leg arch length, seat height, seat foam, knee angle and knee contact, handlebar width, position and offset, the shore hardness of grip rubbers, tall riders, short riders, fat or skinny simply everything is as it should be on the new 1290 Super Duke R. Simply get on and feel comfortable. Everyone. Male or female.USER VALUESurprises are best when nobody expects them. For example, the KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE R is very e

2014 KTM SX-F 350

2014 KTM SX-F 350

$5,100

Denville, New Jersey

Year 2014

Make KTM

Model SX-F 350

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2014 ktm 350 sx-f only 10 hours on this bikeextras had ktm break away leverscall or text 2012408822 for any info

2014 KTM 250 XC

2014 KTM 250 XC

$5,000

East Hanover, New Jersey

Year 2014

Make KTM

Model 250 XC

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2014 KTM 250 XC, *EXTRAS*Some bikes are kept off site. Please call prior to visiting. Motor vehicle, doc and NJ sales tax are extra. 2014 KTM 250 XC THE VICTORY MACHINE Unbeatable power-to-weight ratio, low maintenance costs and high-performance make the 250 XC an unrivaled machine for extremely tough cross-country rides. The state-of-the-art engine is activated effortlessly with an electric starter and has been regarded for years as the most successful two-stroke power unit on the market. Best-in-class, enduro-specific performance, a redesigned reed valve housing, the perfectly designed six-speed transmission and the further refined DDS clutch send the engine to the very top of its class. Featres May Include: OPTIMIZED ENGINEThe engine has a redesigned reed valve housing featuring Boyesen high-performance reeds. Thanks to the innovations, performance has been optimized and responsiveness improved. Ignition curve and cylinder head have been optimized and the carburetor setting adjusted. The new developments make the 250 XC even more rideable.CYLINDER HEADA new cylinder head with optimized combustion chamber makes its debut in MY 2014, delivering more effective combustion and above all better responsiveness in the partial load range. This results in better power development and optimized rideabilitySUPERIOR SUSPENSION SETTINGSFor 2014, all XC models are fitted with a newly developed 48mm 4CS Closed Cartridge fork featuring the patented 4-Chamber-System. The sophisticated design provides very constant and sensitive damping characteristics and an adjustable end progression. The new hand click adjuster system is now accessible on top of the fork, rebound on the right hand side, compression on the left. The fork is fitted with improved seal rings made by SKF and high performance fork oil (SAE 4). Compared to the predecessor, the new 4CS fork is lighter, easier to maintain and has been completely valved to match the shock for XC racing.SWINGARMThe cast aluminum swingarm has been developed with state-of-the-art calculation and simulation software and constructed, in terms of design and wall thickness, for minimum weight with optimum stiffness and precisely defined flexibility. For the 2014 model year, our engineers have revised the chainguide for the benefit of higher functional reliability, while simultaneously reducing the weight.FRAMEThe state-of-the-art frame design made of lightweight, high-strength chromoly steel sections combines maximum longitudinal stiffness with optimum torsional rigidity. It guarantees easy handling and precise cornering, but also outstanding stability.TRIPLE CLAMPSThe lower triple clamp has been modified for optimum attachment of the new front fender. Thanks to its new contour and attachment with two bolts from the front an

2017 KTM 690 Enduro R

2017 KTM 690 Enduro R

$10,799

Belleville, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 690 Enduro R

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2017 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2017 KTM 690 Enduro R DYNAMIC CORNERING FUN Powerful engine, cool look, fantastic chassis set-up and optimum ergonomics - the KTM 690 Enduro R unites outstanding offroad qualities with unbeatable all-round ability - plus a shape radically optimized. It feels just as at home in the city and on rural roads as it does on gravel and tough terrain. The even more advanced single-cylinder combines the classic Enduro concept with state-of-the-art technology and sporty all-round ability with suitability for everyday use. Perfect workmanship and impressive details reflect the typical KTM philosophy. Features may include: ENGINEModernised once again with twin plug ignition and ride-by-wire, the state-of-the-art, water-cooled LC4 single-cylinder on the 690 Enduro R delivers an impressive 49 kW (67 hp) from 690 cc of displacement. It combines powerful acceleration from the very lowest revs with an outstanding free-revving nature and refined engine running. It's extremely economical with fuel and saves its owner even more money, thanks to long service intervals of 10,000 km. Annoying rear wheel chatter? Prevented reliably by its slipper clutch that's fitted as standard.BALANCER SHAFTThe finely balanced crank drive of the 690 single-cylinder converts terrific combustion pressure into unrivalled single-power - thanks to its balancer shaft, which eliminates vibration without having any detrimental effect on the super-single.INJECTION / ENGINE MANAGEMENTThe guarantee for smooth throttle response, not just throttle cable control: The 690 Enduro R is equipped with a cable-free ride-by-wire system for opening the throttle valve. This significantly improves the power delivery, making the potent single-cylinder's throttle response and ride quality even smoother. It also electronically translates the throttle commands of the rider into throttle valve positions perfectly suited to the riding conditions. As before the rider has the choice between three different mappings for influencing the engine characteristics. A twin plug ignition system now controls two differently sized spark plugs in each cylinder head independently from each other in such a way that more efficient combustion and a smoother, optimally controlled combustion sequence are achieved at all times. The result: even more and even better controlled power, lower fuel consumption, and less emissions.FRAME AND SWINGARMDespite its thoroughbred offroad chassis, the 690 Enduro R also numbers among the curve-bandits on the road. Two major contributors to its excellent tracking stability are the lightweight tubular trellis frame made from chrome-molybdenum steel and the high-quality die-cast swingarm - both of them extremely torsion-resistant.ABSThe 690 Enduro R enters the fray with Bosch 9M+ABS - highly effective, disengageable

2017 KTM 690 Duke

2017 KTM 690 Duke

$8,999

Belleville, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 690 Duke

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2017 KTM 690 Duke, 2017 KTM 690 Duke SMOOTH CRIMINAL Two decades ago, the original Duke was nothing short of revolutionary. KTM s first single-cylinder street bike grew into a cult classic, adding extreme fun to a raw and radical concept. In 2017, the fully revised 690 DUKE stays faithful to its ancestor s ways, but adds future-proof refinements: impressive smoothness, sophisticated electronics, improved ergonomics and a good old power boost over last year s model. This firmly cements the world s strongest single-cylinder production motorcycle at the cutting edge of engineering. Speaking of which: carving corners has never been more fun, thanks to its revised fork offset. Long live the Duke! Features may include: ENGINEThe brilliant LC4 showcases twenty-four carats of fun. From the trademark 690 cm³ thumper, the engineers have now extracted a whopping 73 hp (54 kW) and 74 Nm of torque, making light work of the equally lightweight 690 Duke. How it happened? They completely reworked the cylinder head, inserted a new, ultra light and extremely strong piston and connection rod, rerouted the air intake through a resonator chamber and provided the new crankshaft with new sleeve bearings. As a result, the powerband now is a thousand rpm wider, which means an even more uniform power delivery, especially in the mid to high rev range. Twin ignition featuring plug-selective mapping, rock solid but featherweight internals and optimized intake and exhaust systems cultivate this massive mono to be as strong as it is smooth, assisted by an advanced ride-by-wire system with three riding modes, which guarantees great refinement as well as low fuel consumption and emission figures. You re green, while they re green with envy. And you haven t even begun mentioning upmarket goodies like a standard slipper clutch.NEW CYLINDER HEADInside the new cylinder head, the exhaust valves are actuated by roller rockers while the camshaft powers the intake valves. Therefore, the ignition timings can be controlled with far greater accuracy. The result is more peak power over a broader rev range. Win-win!SECOND BALANCERIn a free-revving firecracker like this, you want to smooth things out a bit. That s why the camshaft serves as a bonus balancer shaft, nipping annoying vibrations in the bud.ENGINE MANAGEMENTThe electronic engine management system lives to make the LC4 shine. Twin ignition with individual mappings for each spark plug ensures that your precious fuel is always burned to perfection, irrespective of load and engine speed. And then there is genuine ride-by-wire, in other words: Electronically controlled throttle valve actuation without any mechanical linkage. You d be forgiven for thinking it runs on cream. Whipped cream, that is.FRAME AND SWINGARMThe 9 kg tubular trellis frame made from

2016 KTM 250 SX-F

2016 KTM 250 SX-F

$6,299

East Hanover, New Jersey

Year 2016

Make KTM

Model 250 SX-F

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2016 KTM 250 SX-F, 2016 KTM 250 SX-F Small-Bore Domination The 250 SX-F is once again the World Champion in MX2 and adds a prestigious AMA Supercross Lites Championship to its amazing trophy cabinet. The 2014 season was a great success in racing at all levels around the globe, and 2015 promises to be no different. Already known for its strong performance, the new generation 250 SX-F presents itself with a newly developed, stronger engine built into an all-new chassis. The performance combination of a powerful and much torqueier engine in a lightweight and agile chassis is sure to make the 250 SX-F the star of the show for the future. The new 250 SX-F, the lightest and best performing bike in its class, is the right choice for both the amateur and professional riders, as it will remain a winning bike that will be hard to chase for its competitors. Features May Include: ENGINEThe new 250 SX-F engine is based on the similar overall design of its predecessor, with some major refinements to make this MX2 power plant more compact and lighter, with the production of improved torque and power across the entire rpm range. Perhaps one of the most impressive benefits of the new design is a weight reduction of 1.1 kg to a total of 26.1 kg, including the incredibly beneficial electric starter. The reworked power unit guarantees an improved power curve over the entire rev range up to 14,000 rpm, which makes the new 250 SX-F much easier to ride for both amateur and professional riders.CYLINDER HEADThe centerpiece of the compact DOHC (Double Overhead Camshaft) engine is the new cutting-edge cylinder head. It features improved combustion chamber geometry, two 150 g lighter overhead camshafts with new timings, plus a friction-optimized super-fine surface, new finger followers with a 30 % harder DLC coating and a reworked timing drive (friction reduced and shorter DID timing chain, new sprockets and chain guides). New valve springs and retainers for the four lightweight titanium valves (intake 32.5 mm, exhaust 26.5 mm) and high-flow ports create a maximized flow rate for an optimal power band and maximum performance, which concludes at an engine speed sound barrier of 14,000 rpm.CYLINDER & PISTONIn the reworked and shorter cylinder that has a bore of 78 mm, is a weight-reduced, forged bridged box-type piston made by CP. It features a unique piston ground shape adapted to the new combustion chamber and stands out with its extra rigid structure, combined with a low weight. The compression ratio is at 14.4:1. Thanks to the low oscillating masses, the engine offers extremely lively characteristics.BATTERY AND WIRING HARNESSAs in the past, all new SX-F engines are fitted with the proven electric starter a unique KTM feature and a major benefit at all levels of motocross racing. For MY 2016 the SX-F range fits a super

2013 KTM 350 EXC-F

2013 KTM 350 EXC-F

$5,888

Deptford Township, New Jersey

Year 2013

Make KTM

Model 350 EXC-F

Category -

Engine 349.7 cc cc

Posted Over 1 Month

The 2013 KTM 350 EXC-F is the most capable mid-size street legal dual-sport bike available that can also handle demands of the enduro racing. Ultra-compact, with 57.5 mm (2.264 in.) stroke and 88 mm (3.46 in.) bore, and equipped with state-of-the-art electronic fuel injection, the engine offers a broad usable rev range. This delivers extremely efficient rideability and controllable traction on all terrain.

2017  KTM  250 SX-F Factory Edition

2017 KTM 250 SX-F Factory Edition

Request Price

Woodbury, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 250 SX-F Factory Edition

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2017 KTM 250 SX-F Factory Edition the WHIP the 250 SX-F Factory Edition the lightest and best performing bike in its class is the right choice for both amateur and professional riders. And take them out. Motorcycles Motocross DX514473040679906701158 DX1 . the combination of a powerful and torquey engine in a lightweight and agile chassis is key to its success. A 14.000 rpm redline factory spec WP AER 48 forks orange anodized triple clamps and sprocket an FMF muffler launch control and Excel rims: this small bore superstar based on the prestigious 250 SX-F has what it takes to take on the big guns...

2017  KTM  RC 390

2017 KTM RC 390

Request Price

Woodbury, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model RC 390

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

2017 KTM RC 390 RACING GENES A sports bike in its purest form. the handling ? simply spectacular. Whether you are on country roads or the racetrack the Moto3 genes are perceptible in every manoeuvre and convey pure race feeling. Motorcycles SuperSport DX514473040679906701158 DX1 . Reduced to the essentials. the performance ? incredible. the power ? awesome. Agile fast suitable for A2 driving license and extremely sporty...

2017  KTM  450 EXC-F Six Days

2017 KTM 450 EXC-F Six Days

$11,399

Woodbury, New Jersey

Year 2017

Make KTM

Model 450 EXC-F Six Days

Category -

Engine -

Posted Over 1 Month

Arriba! Motorcycles Dual Purpose DX514473040679906701158 DX1 . the special edition SIX DAYS models celebrate this success with special performance upgrades and top-of-the-line components. In 2016 the ISDE (International Six Days Enduro) will be held in Navarra Spain and the KTM model line-up has been suitably equipped to handle anything the dusty and rocky terrain can throw at it. 2017 KTM 450 EXC-F Six Days 2017 KTM 450 EXC-F Six Days - SIX DAYS SIX WINS KTM has ruled offroad for decades...